i would be surprised, toshiba conversation about this, is that what you're dealing with those smart phones the reliance on the personal credit score is a major obstacle to small business. >> does anybody think he is a good point of this financial system and banks need to adjust to that point? >> he's got an extraordinary point, and i think that we've been doing -- our chamber, for members and other small business, we been a strong advocate of technical assistance for small business. part of that is that we can bring loans to bankers where we have a technical assistance agreement with them long term. it's not to suggest anybody is have technical assistance will be eligible for alone. however, we can prove that this business is operating very efficiently, they have the ability repay the loan, and an opportunity for growth. that could be a measurement or a substitute as part of the credit analysis. >> denny, what you think about this question? >> for sal and fascinated by it. anything like this is always a great interest. at the second thing i keep thinking about is, if the studies i've done